Star Wars: Message Boards: "I have failed you, Anakin." [TDE]


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starwars.com > Community > Message Boards > The Films > Episode III > "I have failed you, Anakin." [TDE]

"I have failed you, Anakin." [TDE] - 2541 replies | 170 pages

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JediHadia
Total Posts: 257
Member Since: 05/05

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:20 PM

okay... I wonder how the Jedi 'made themselves look like traitors'. Ultimately they were right. Palps is evil and not really Anakin's 'friend'. Tamsyn is right... you have the right to your own opinions but your reasoning is definetely flawed.

Tamsyn3
Total Posts: 4585
Member Since: 03/05

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:21 PM

Thank you, JediHadia.

soberjedi24
Total Posts: 317
Member Since: 11/04

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:21 PM

I always get the feeling like obian was always too closed off from anakin, even though they are best friends, anakin still manages to keep his secrerts, ( like the sand people) from obiwan, and I get the feeling like they dont talk like youre supposed to. Anakin is a very sensetive guy, he needs to express his feelings and feel like he can have someone to talk to, i dont think he ever gets that from obiwan - they're always on some damn fool idealist crusaide somewhere... andnever get the chance to sort things out.

Tamsyn3
Total Posts: 4585
Member Since: 03/05

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:23 PM

JediHadia
Total Posts: 257
Member Since: 05/05

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:24 PM

everyone in every relationship has secrets. I'm sure he kept secrets from Padme too. That is a part of life and relating to people. I still hold fast to my opinion that he was closer to obi-wan that to anyone else.

JediHadia
Total Posts: 257
Member Since: 05/05

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:25 PM

Tamsyn3
Total Posts: 4585
Member Since: 03/05

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:30 PM

To answer you Tamsyn, I think that obi-wan feels a lot of guilt for what happened... being his master and mentor and 'brother'. However, when I look back, I see Obi-wan as having the least amount of blame on his shoulders. It seems that he always tried to be careful with Anakin, even when chastising him.

I always thought that Obi-Wan is not always judged fairly, and I am glad that you agree with me. It seems whenever Anakin's fall is discussed it alway comes around to Obi-Wan was too hard on Anakin, he critizised him, he didn't understand him. He didn't give him the right advice, and the list goes on. It's good to know that I am not the only one who thinks that he should not take all the blame. In fact, as you said, there are many others that are more culpable than Obi-Wan.

Tamsyn3
Total Posts: 4585
Member Since: 03/05

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:35 PM

Well, it is quite late here, so I think it is time to put this thread to bed and pick it up in the morning. Until then, May the Force be with you all. Good night.

StillBlazinToday
Total Posts: 572
Member Since: 02/04

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:35 PM

> when I look back, I see Obi-wan as having the least amount of blame on
> his shoulders. It seems that he always tried to be
> careful with Anakin, even when chastising him.

I agree that Obi-Wan had the least amount of responsibility for Anakin's turn. Obi-Wan isnt even Anakin's master at this point, Anakin is a Jedi Knight. But when Anakin was his apprentice, Obi-Wan always guided him capably. He gave Anakin all the right Jedi advice. Anakin didnt listen.

Anakin chose to turn, but Obi-Wan still feels responsible because he feels like he should've neen an even beter instructor than he was. This is true to a degree, but he already did an outstanding job. I'm sure that any time there's a Master/apprentice relationship and the Apprentice goes on to screw up, the Master would feel as tho they failed in their training.

JediHadia
Total Posts: 257
Member Since: 05/05

Date Posted: Jun 09, 2005 11:36 PM

Anakin was arrogant, cocky, and impatient. Obi-wan should have been harder on him!!! The fact is that this guy is expected to save the universe... he needed a strict teacher and hard lessons. Obi-wan, who took him as a padawan immediately after becoming a Jedi knight himself, did a good job. He took on a job that he himself didn't think should be done, but he had faith. Faith in his former master and faith in Anakin (which eventually paid off). No wonder he felt like a failure... his first and only padawan who also happened to be the Chosen One turned to the dark side.

Tamsyn3
Total Posts: 4585
Member Since: 03/05

Date Posted: Jun 10, 2005 05:56 AM

Thank you for your comments, JediHadia and StillBlazinToday. I always felt as you did, that Obi-Wan was critical when he needed to be. Anakin certainly did, he even expressed this to Padme after his outburst to her in AOTC. And I agree, because Anakin failed, and Obi-Wan was his master, it would be natural and in Obi-Wan's nature to think it was his failure as a teacher than Anakin turned. He would never think to put the blame for that on anyone else, even though many factors came together in Anakin's eventual downfall. And yes, JediHadia, it seems that towards the end, Obi-Wan was the only one who still trusted Anakin and thought that Anakin would do the right thing, only to see Anakin fall anyway. It had to be a heartbreaking moment for him when that happened. figaro3 agrees with you that Obi-Wan apparently never did fully give up on Anakin, and he has some good arguments to back this up.

		figaro3 Member Profile Total Posts: 24363 Member Since: 05/04

Date Posted: Jun 10, 2005 08:45 AM

This message was edited by figaro3 on Jun 10, 2005 08:45 AM

He would never think to put the blame for that on anyone else, even though many factors came together in Anakin's eventual downfall

Well said tamsyn3 - and this proves Obi Wan's greatness. His humility. Taking responsibility for his own actions - even if others were perhaps more to blame. (In this case, Palpatine and the Council - for instance.) Qualities Anakin sadly lacked. Someone on another thread I think mentioned that Anakin's final "I hate you" to Obi Wan was because Obi Wan represented the true Jedi Anakin/Vader was not. We tend to hate those who represent the very ideals we are striving to attain and, for whatever reason, cannot. I do agree, although I think that final "I hate you" was much more complicated.

Tamsyn3
Total Posts: 4585
Member Since: 03/05

Date Posted: Jun 10, 2005 08:52 AM

this proves Obi Wan's greatness. His humility. Taking responsibility for his own actions - even if others were perhaps more to blame.

And that, figaro3, is why I love Obi-Wan more than any of the other Jedi, even Yoda. He alone, I think suffered more than anyone else when Anakin fell to the Dark Side, even more than Padme. He was Anakin's teacher from the time he was 9, he was Anakin's best friend, brother and father figure. When Anakin failed, Obi-Wan, I think, felt that he had failed, utterly and completely. That is why he said with such defeat and anguish, "I have failed you, Anakin."

Darth Luser
Total Posts: 77
Member Since: 08/03

Date Posted: Jun 10, 2005 09:07 AM

I think if Anakin had been made a master, or if Obi-wan had not gone to Utupau then Anakin would not have turned. Palpatine suggested Anakin lead the mission because he wanted to deter the council from it (by making them think he wanted it for some reason, they denied it). If you read the book you can tell Anakin is really disturbed and troubled by obis leaving because he knows that soon he will need him the most.

Obi-wan would have been there when Anakin was faced with Palps lies before darkside lust for power had taken hold and blinded him. Also if the council had trusted Anakin a bit more he would have learned the things they say in secret and understand their hard position, Mace's love for the republic etc and it would have helped to restore his faith in the Jedi, and therefore understand their actions better, and eliminate the confusion he fought with. it was doubt in the council that kept him from siding with Mace, not so much that he loved the Sith, but he doubted the Jedi.

Darth Luser
Total Posts: 77
Member Since: 08/03

Date Posted: Jun 10, 2005 09:08 AM

Lastly Anakin shouldn't have let pride and fear keep him from confiding in Obi-wan earlier, about the baby, the dreams and everything, Obi-wan could have helped him out and would have, I know it.

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