Star Wars: Message Boards: Lumiya *SPOILERS*


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starwars.com > Community > Message Boards > Beyond The Films > Books, Comics and Television > Lumiya *SPOILERS*

Lumiya *SPOILERS* - 1276 replies | 86 pages

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		Leland Y Chee Member Profile Total Posts: 1396 Member Since: 05/00

Date Posted: Mar 20, 2005 04:20 PM

This message was edited by The Broox on Dec 14, 2006 07:26 PM

Discuss the character Lumiya (aka Shira Elan Colla Brie ) here.

Sources containing Lumiya:
starwars.com Lumiya Databank Entry
Star Wars Marvel Comics #56-62, 88+
Star Wars Galaxy Magazine #3
Star Wars Galaxy II Trading Cards
Star Wars Gamer #5
The New Essential Guide to Characters
wizards.com Carida Planet Hoppers feature

This thread continues a discussion originally in the Family Tree thread.

poverello - §RIP§
Total Posts: 6999
Member Since: 09/03

Date Posted: Mar 20, 2005 04:30 PM

This message was edited by poverello - §RIP§ on Mar 20, 2005 04:30 PM

Hi there Tastes.

You mentioned that Lumiya is not a Sith lord. It would certainly fit with the rule of the two issue, and from what GL has said it is clear she is not a Sith lord - a sith apprentice, or any sith title when Vader and the Emperor died in RoTJ.

The only possibility for her to be one, would be her declaring herself to be one, free to form the Sith as she pleases as Quest mentioned. However for that to work, it would mean that Vader or the Emperor taught her Sith teachings and/or ordained her as a Sith before their death. Since there's no Sith after both of them, they didn't ordain her one.

So technically, she could find some sith scrolls/holocrons, study them and call themself a Sith lord - still that wouldn't make her a Sith Lord unless the spirit of a dead Sith Lord appears and ordains (or appeared and ordained sometime in the past) her

		Leland Y Chee Member Profile Total Posts: 1396 Member Since: 05/00

Date Posted: Mar 20, 2005 04:49 PM

We do know that Lumiya has been to Ziost, so she does have some knowledge of the ancient Sith. Then again there have been plenty of characters who have gone to Sith worlds, hoping to follow the path of the Sith. Members of the Cult of Ragnos from Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy and Granta Omega are just a couple of examples.

Hey, I just realized, Dathka Graush is another Sith Lord that wasn't on my Sith Lord "family tree." (Though I'm not certain if the "rule of two" was in effect during his reign. So who knows, there might be other Sith Lords who I forgot to mention on that list. Still, Lumiya isn't one of them, given with what we know so far.

The2ndquest
Total Posts: 1173
Member Since: 12/99

Date Posted: Mar 20, 2005 07:01 PM

This message was edited by The2ndquest on Mar 20, 2005 07:02 PM

Tasty- how is her not being a Sith lord rectified with sources such as NEGTC referring to her as "Dark Lady of the Sith"?

How does the title Dark lady of the Sith compare to Dark Lord of the Sith or other Sith ranks like Sith Acolytes and such?

Given that she's taken on at least one apprentice (Jax) and used him to eliminate Palpatine, would she not have the most legitimate claim as heir to the Sith? (in other words, distinguishing her apart from random sects or cults making such claims)

IllogicalRogue2
Total Posts: 9804
Member Since: 02/03

Date Posted: Mar 20, 2005 10:06 PM

Tasty doesn't she already have threadS?

There is the New Sith Order one too.

≈Suzanne≈
Total Posts: 22263
Member Since: 08/01

Date Posted: Mar 20, 2005 10:10 PM

> Tasty doesn't she already have threadS?
>
> There is the New Sith Order one too.

There's nothing in the thread directory, and whilst there is a New Sith Order thread this thread is purely about Lumiya - and Tasty is saying that there is no evidence that she actually is Sith.

poverello - §RIP§
Total Posts: 6999
Member Since: 09/03

Date Posted: Mar 20, 2005 10:26 PM

This message was edited by poverello - §RIP§ on Mar 20, 2005 10:28 PM

Obviously the NEGTC and the Gamer are in error

Mistakes do happen of course, so it's understandable. Since Tasty confirmed it, the only person who could override him is GL himself. Her having an apprentice or trying to kill Palpatine doesn't make her claim valid though, since there would be many people with the desire to rule the galaxy and would have tried going against Palpatine.

IllogicalRogue2
Total Posts: 9804
Member Since: 02/03

Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 12:45 AM

Tasty is saying that there is no evidence that she actually is Sith.

Well what else would Vader train her has and why else hide her? Pure Sith, add to that renamed "Dark Lady Lumnya" How can that NOT be Sith. (not a question, more a statement)

poverello - §RIP§
Total Posts: 6999
Member Since: 09/03

Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 01:20 AM

This message was edited by poverello - §RIP§ on Mar 21, 2005 01:38 AM

Perhaps Vader was creating his own dark Jedi for his own purposes - luring Luke and doing the espionage work for him, or even as a backup plan against the Emperor.

One thing is 100% certain. She is no Sith anytime when Vader trained and during both Vader and the Emperor died. GL confirmed this, and that means what Tasty said is correct. She would know something about them, but she is no sith anytime during Vader and the Emperor were alive, and after their death in RoTJ.

There is no way that she is a Sith, unless she found a way after the death of Vader and the Emperor. If the NEGTC and Gamer said she is a sith because Vader made her one, and/or that the title dark lady mens she is a Sith, those 2 are immediately wrong because G-level overrides them. Tasty and GL say the same thing

IllogicalRogue2
Total Posts: 9804
Member Since: 02/03

Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 03:21 AM

All it would take to make her one would be trainning material...

And she was on Ziost. Plenty of time to go out and find a Sith ruin somewhere and study up, or get a Sith amulet and get trained by a Sith Lord's spirit.

It could happen.

poverello - §RIP§
Total Posts: 6999
Member Since: 09/03

Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 03:42 AM

That could certainly happen. She certainly knows a lot of stuff, and could probably come up with some sith teachings/holocron and who knows if another long dead Sith spirit would show up. However, that she was a Sith (any title) when Vader and the Emperor was alive as those sources seem to indicate, is not possible.

IllogicalRogue2
Total Posts: 9804
Member Since: 02/03

Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 05:41 AM

However, that she was a Sith (any title) when Vader and the Emperor was alive as those sources seem to indicate, is not possible.

I'll conceed the point there. But I personaly see her fulfilling her own Sith training. However she can, she knew enough about the Sith IMO to want to be one.

The2ndquest
Total Posts: 1173
Member Since: 12/99

Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 12:32 PM

However, I don't think you should be so quick to dismiss the Gamer and NEGTC entries as simply errors- these are fairly recent sources afterall, particularly NEGTC which came out around the release of AOTC, and the "rule of two" stuff from GL was well known by that time.

In other words, it's highly unlikely they are actually errors. I'd just like to know the context in which to take those statements.

And just because GL has said the Sith died at Endor, doesn't mean there aren't ways to work around that comment so that both possibilities remain true.

Tramp the wanderer
Total Posts: 2458
Member Since: 06/04

Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 01:40 PM

> There is no way that she is a Sith, unless she found
> a way after the death of Vader and the
> Emperor. If the NEGTC and Gamer said she is a sith
> because Vader made her one, and/or that the title
> dark lady mens she is a Sith, those 2 are immediately
> wrong because G-level overrides them. Tasty and GL
> say the same thing

Both sources I quoted earlier in the Family Tree[ thread stated that Vader took her on as his apprentice in secret and granted her the title Dark Lady Lumyia. The fact is that her Sith training was behind the back of the Emperor, and that Vader was violating the Rule of Two. (Continued)

Tramp the wanderer
Total Posts: 2458
Member Since: 06/04

Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 01:40 PM

The NEGtC specifically referrs to Vader as Lumyia's Beloved Master. Also, G-Level only overrides these sources if there is no way to explain how she became a Sith. Both sources state that Vader trained her in the Sith arts in secret without the Emperor's knowledge, before presenting her as a Hand. The explaination is that Vader broke the Rule of Two in indoctrinating her into the Sith order and granting her the Title Dark Lady of the Sith. Therefore, the contradiction is covered.

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