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starwars.com > Community > Message Boards > Beyond The Films > Books, Comics and Television > Holocron continuity database questions

Holocron continuity database questions - 2463 replies | 165 pages

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		Leland Y Chee Member Profile Total Posts: 1398 Member Since: 05/00

Date Posted: Jan 10, 2004 04:20 AM

does the Holocron contain any listings of individual capital ships that have been identified by name or hull number and their current disposition/ultimate fate? Sort of like an official version of Kaelis's Asset Tracking site...

I don't think the Holocron is as extensive with some of its older entries as Asset Tracking. Each newly named ship, however minor, is given its own entry with a full description, and as the ship's history evolves, the description is updated. Any major stats that are available (ie size, manufacturer, weapons, etc.)are also noted. If an image is available, we will include that as well. But for older entries, such as minor ships from the West End Games RPG or the X-wing videogames, the ships are lumped together in a single entry by source, with little or no details. If those ships are used in a later source, they are then given their own entry.

Tresk Im'nel
Total Posts: 46791
Member Since: 09/03

Date Posted: Jan 10, 2004 04:46 AM

This message was edited by Tresk Im'nel on Jan 10, 2004 04:47 AM

Each newly named ship, however minor, is given its own entry with a full description, and as the ship's history evolves, the description is updated. Any major stats that are available (ie size, manufacturer, weapons, etc.)are also noted. If an image is available, we will include that as well.

Very interesting. Thanks, Tasty Taste.

		Alakran Member Profile Total Posts: 17 Member Since: 01/00

Date Posted: Jan 13, 2004 11:57 AM

I've found inconsistencies in the Sith naming.

The first Sith Order was made of Jedi renegades who ruled the Sith species, about 15000 - 5000 BBY. Their legacy (4400 - 4000 BBY) was lost after the Sith War.

A new Sith Sect (2000 - 1000 BBY) was made of force users who thought the dark side was a power to be used. They were at war with the Jedi and between themselves. 1000 BBY Darth Bane refounded the order, stablished the "Darth" naming and the "two-Sith" law, which survived until Vader's time.

The Sith characters from the early Sith in KOTOR are named "Darth Something", which wasn't stablished as a Sith rule by that time.

Darth Rivan from the Living Force Campaign also has a "Darth name" and he died before Bane.

Darth NTM
Total Posts: 1042
Member Since: 07/00

Date Posted: Jan 14, 2004 02:10 AM

...themselves. 1000 BBY Darth Bane refounded the order, stablished the "Darth" naming and the "two-Sith" law, which survived until Vader's time.

The Sith characters from the early Sith in KOTOR are named "Darth Something", which wasn't stablished as a Sith rule by that time.

Darth Rivan from the Living Force Campaign also has a "Darth name" and he died before Bane.

It was never categorically stated that there was no "Darth" sith Before Darth Bane. It was only said that every Sith after him was called 'Darth' something.

Oh, and Darth Malak and Darth Rivan didn't really have much to do with the original order of sith. Exar Kun and his followers had Been vanquished years earlier, while Malak and Revan were still jedi. They "refounded" the order, much like the dark jedi of c.2000 BSW4 would.

Tresk Im'nel
Total Posts: 46791
Member Since: 09/03

Date Posted: Jan 14, 2004 02:21 AM

This message was edited by Tresk Im'nel on Jan 14, 2004 02:29 AM

In addition to being an archive for information that has already released, the Holocron is a tool to track everything that is currently in development. Information is entered at the earliest stages, so there is information about products that wont? be released until years later.

Does the Holocron contain details that haven't been published, and aren't necessarily meant for future use, but are merely there for possible reference use?

And is it okay to ask questions about such material?

		O.J. Member Profile Total Posts: 22967 Member Since: 12/99

Date Posted: Jan 14, 2004 05:51 AM

This message was edited by O.J. on Jan 14, 2004 05:54 AM

Really the only reason Revan and Malak were named Darth is so that people who aren't as knowledgeable about SW lore as we are would recognize the names as being Sith. We are really reading too much into this.

		Leland Y Chee Member Profile Total Posts: 1398 Member Since: 05/00

Date Posted: Jan 14, 2004 10:28 AM

Does the Holocron contain details that haven't been published, and aren't necessarily meant for future use, but are merely there for possible reference use?

Definitely. But since the information hasn't been published, there is always a chance that this information can change.

Examples of unpublished material include timelines and organizational charts used solely for reference. The internal notes known as the New Jedi Order "bible" are another.

And is it okay to ask questions about such material?

You can ask your specific continuity-related questions in the VIP thread, and we'll answer what we can. If you have any specific process or logistical questions about this aspect of the Holocron, you can ask them here.

RaphusLee
Total Posts: 46
Member Since: 06/03

Date Posted: Jan 19, 2004 09:38 AM

It was never categorically stated that there was no "Darth" sith Before Darth Bane. It was only said that every Sith after him was called 'Darth' something

But 'Darth' is supposed to be Bane's first name. So it's impossible Malak and Revan choose this name like an honorific title, as it's intended.

Was this so much difficult to coordinate? In videogames there always are these little and nasty discontinuity errors :P

		jSarek Member Profile Total Posts: 2262 Member Since: 12/03

Date Posted: Jan 19, 2004 03:19 PM

But 'Darth' is supposed to be Bane's first name

Where'd you hear that? I was always of the understanding that "Darth" was short for "Dark Lord of the Sith," and that title's been around for a very long time.

Darth NTM
Total Posts: 1042
Member Since: 07/00

Date Posted: Jan 20, 2004 02:00 AM

There was a sith Lord named "Darth Rivan" who lived around the same time as Darth Bane.

Darth could be Bane's first name, but that's no reason to think its exclusive to him.

		Alakran Member Profile Total Posts: 17 Member Since: 01/00

Date Posted: Jan 21, 2004 06:40 AM

Are the entries in the Holocron sorted as cannonical & non-cannonical? Are there various degress of oficialness? (You know, the old debate about what is cannon, official, apocripha and so on).

		Leland Y Chee Member Profile Total Posts: 1398 Member Since: 05/00

Date Posted: Jan 21, 2004 09:16 AM

Are the entries in the Holocron sorted as cannonical & non-cannonical? Are there various degress of oficialness?

The database does indeed have a canon field. Anything in the films and from George Lucas (including unpublished internal notes that we might receive from him or from the film production department) is considered "G" canon. Next we have what we call continuity "C" canon which is pretty much everything else. There is secondary "S" continuity canon which we use for some older published materials and things that may or may not fit just right. But, if it is referenced in something else it becomes "C". Similarly, any "C" canon item that makes it into the films can become "G" canon. Lastly there is non-continuity "N" which we rarely use except in the case of a blatant contradiction or for things that have been cut.

I will not go into specifics as to what is considered "S" canon or what items that are seemingly "C" canon are actually "G" canon.

DarkSaber *The GUY*
Total Posts: 4538
Member Since: 10/02

Date Posted: Jan 22, 2004 12:16 PM

This message was edited by DarkSaber *The GUY* on Jan 22, 2004 12:18 PM

. We started by importing all the information from the Star Wars Encyclopedia and Behind the Magic and Insider's Guide CD-ROMs and it's been rapidly growing and evolving ever since.

Yeah, I have "Behind the magic", it was pretty good. But what I want to know is if GL is going to release the OT on DVD with deleted scenes + commentarys.

P.S. I also have heard rumors of GL thinking about going back and putting back in some of the deleted scenes into the OT. Can you tell me anything about this? Or are you not at liberty to tell untill GL approves of going public on it? Or is it all, truely, just a rumor?

The semi-omniscient tkrausse
Total Posts: 1379
Member Since: 05/03

Date Posted: Jan 24, 2004 05:32 PM

Okay, I know that the novels are C-level, and I assume that most of the newer comics are also C-level. Where on the continuity spectrum to the Video games come in? Is it a differant level depending on the game, or is there a general level for games as games?

Thanks!

RaphusLee
Total Posts: 46
Member Since: 06/03

Date Posted: Jan 25, 2004 03:51 AM

Where'd you hear that? I was always of the understanding that "Darth" was short for "Dark Lord of the Sith," and that title's been around for a very long time.

Is the most logical supposition. According to The New Essential Guide to Characters, "Bane committed the Sith Order to secrecy and began the tradition that would hand the name Darth to each of his successors"

The "Dar(k Lord of the Si)th" is the explanation which was given before knowing this, but I believe it has never been official.

Still, it's inexplicable the fact that two Jedi renegades who lived 3000 years before Bane used the Darth as a title. In case we admit that even then, it was a title, official chronologies says its first use was when Bane, and only post-Bane Sith are "Darths".

So it is a discordance, anyway.

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